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  • Abby Stoddard, PharmD,MBA

From Pharmacy to Dispensary with Luba Andrus, RPh, MJ

For our first blog installment of the new year I am so excited to share my interview with Luba Andrus. Luba is a pharmacist, business owner and visionary in both pharmacy and cannabis. One of the first women to own a pharmacy in the state of Illinois she is a trailblazer, advocate for patients and educator of her fellow colleagues on the benefits of cannabis medicine.


I was honored to be able to interview Luba for our blog this month - find our full interview recording and transcript below!


More About Luba Andrus, RPh MJ

Luba Andrus has more than 40 years of executive, operational and retail leadership experience in both the pharmaceutical and cannabis industries, including co-founding two medical marijuana dispensaries in Illinois. Prior to entering the medical cannabis industry she owned and operated a retail pharmacy, where she was one of the first woman pharmacy owners in the state.


Luba serves on the board of directors for medical cannabis dispensaries, CBD companies and national behavioral health organizations. As a registered pharmacist she earned her pharmacy degree from the University of Illinois College of Pharmacy and later earned her Master of Jurisprudence in Health Law from Loyola University School of Law in Chicago, specializing in eldercare.


Read more about her here.




Click Here to Listen to the Full Interview:


Full Interview Transcript:

AS: Happy New Year to all of our readers and listeners, I hope everyone is healthy, safe, and looking forward to a happier and healthier 2021. A part of the journey of this year for many will be a journey with cannabis medicine. Whether you're in an established state like Oregon, or a new adult use state like Montana, Illinois, or New Jersey. Part of the benefit of adult use cannabis legislation is that it generally increases access to cannabis medicine. Patients no longer need to visit a physician for certification, or to have a qualifying condition to get access. In my mind, this puts cannabis in the category of an over the counter drug. You don't need a prescription for it, but that doesn't mean that it's the right choice for everyone. That's why I am so honored to have on the client corner blog today the perfect person who has the pharmacy, cannabis and patient counseling expertise to talk about what you should consider before adding cannabis to your health regimen.

Today I'm speaking with Luba Andrus, a pharmacist and patient advocate. She has owned pharmacies and cannabis dispensaries in Chicago. She is the founder of Mature Approaches to Cannabis and is a sought after public speaker on topics of health pharmacy and cannabis. Thank you so much for being with us Luba.

First - would tell us a little bit about yourself. I've read that you were actually one of the first if not the first woman to own a pharmacy in the Chicagoland area. And more recently, you've also own dispensaries. So could you tell us a little bit about yourself? How you made that transition throughout your career? What's your take on the parallels between pharmacy and cannabis?


LA: Well, Abby, I've been a pharmacist for over 40 years. I loved pharmacy, I loved what I've done. I was in hospital pharmacy retail pharmacy. Yes, I think I was one of the first female pharmacists in the Chicago area to own a drugstore at that time. It was a community pharmacy I specialized in compounding and DME. I loved the community work. I loved working with geriatrics. That's why Mature Approaches in Cannabis came to be because again, I found that these were my patients that really needed to understand cannabis, making that transition - it was tricky. Being a pharmacist, being a pharmacy owner, then going into Omnicare would be becoming a COO with Omnicare. And then I stepped down became a consultant because I went back to school, I received a degree in jurisprudence at Loyola School of Law in Chicago. Again, so I'm always moving like I tell my students, there's no dust on my shoulders.


The transition to cannabis came in 2013. About that time myself and one of my partners, we were looking to open up a pharmacy actually a clinic for HIV patients and to specialize in IVs for the AIDS population. At that same time, Illinois went legal with marijuana and we decided to put a group together apply. And we still are dealing with our HIV population, but it was an amazing transition, learning a lot. And just as a pharmacist, the pharmacology I'm learning so much that for years - yeah, of course I dispensed Marinol, and like all of us we kind of put it in a special place in our locked cabinet because it was Marinol. But what I learned and how I went from from being a pharmacist in the medical or community. I'm still in community and making that transition when we purchased our dispensary as well - the way that happened.


Illinois had 360 licenses available for 60 stores or for 60 dispensaries my group we were able to get two cannabis store licenses, dispensaries, and they were one is in Chicago and the other Rockford. We focused strictly on the medical side. I did do a lot of educational talks in physicians offices in hospitals, universities, just to bring the medical field into this. Sometimes I would get a reaction say, "Well, I never smoked it". Well, I'm not smoking it, I've never used it. But that's not why - I'm here to teach you have this wonderful product that's out there, something that's been here for 5000 years, and we need to know about it. So that was, that's how that's kind of my background and how I got excited and interested.


I am now - my Chicago dispensaries and my group we sold our two stores. I'm with a new group, and we now are in the process of opening five dispensaries in Missouri, and one processing center. And also we have applied and have been granted in West Virginia, a processing center. But we still have not heard how many licenses for dispensaries we may win.


AS:

Wow, that is so exciting. That's amazing. I love that - 'I'm always moving. There's no dust on my shoulders.' I love that. Your perspective on this, especially in talking to other health care providers - I love hearing that, because I think a lot of the comments that I hear from health care professionals and other friends of mine who are healthcare professionals, you know -'How can I talk about it, I don't use it?' But as a pharmacist, I just think, well, I'm a pharmacist, and I talk about all sorts of prescription drugs that I've never used personally, like you educate people on blood pressure medications that you haven't tried, and, you know, cancer drugs that you've never experienced. I think for some reason, cannabis, people put it in another category, which it doesn't necessarily need to be in.


LA:

Totally agree a lot of them still go back to 'I don't smoke it'. And I tried to teach them well, I'm going to say 99% of the patients that I work with, they don't smoke it, they don't want to smoke it. But there are so many other ways of using cannabis and learning about the doses, the dosages, the side effects, all of that. We're all of us in in the medical industry, as clinicians we need to know.


We have to be open to our patients. I tell the doctors, your patients should be able to talk to you that they're using a product, buying it over the counter. Hopefully they're not, you know, sharing from other patients because I don't appreciate sharing any kind of medication amongst patients, as pharmacists, we understand that.


So this is something that I've been out there, me and my, you know, my attache of information and how to help and here's my phone number. The first couple of years were very difficult. I had some - I don't want to call it an altercation but a misunderstanding with some physicians in the medical field - "I don't want to know about it. I don't care. I don't I don't I don't I don't" and I came back and said, you know, I was very diplomatic, I said I understand on a private matter what you're saying. But you have the responsibility and obligation to your patients. If they are licensed or if they have a medical card. They're going to come to you. They're going to want to talk to you about that they are using cannabis and they're going to open up to you, "Doctor i'm i've got a gummy or I've got a tincture". Or to the pharmacist. We just have to know about this.


I've heard too many stories even on the hospital level where a patient is there and then they'll be asking what's what medications are you on and they name everything and then they say that I'm on a gummy or I'm taking CBD every day and the pharmacist will say 'I don't know anything about that'. Well, shame on you pharmacist! There's information everywhere!


Cannabis is used as a medicine, please all of us we must know about it, learn about it. I think in the last year or so. There are so many great sites to learn about cannabis - proper sites, there's a lot of bad stuff. So you've got to kind of, you know, the good stuff. Now there's master's degrees offered just on cannabis. So I'm not telling, you know, my students or my doctors, yeah, you got to go back to school and get this. Now for those who want to, I think it's great, there's a lot of continuing education now coming up, and they're talking about cannabis. So you feel very open and make your patients feel very comfortable that you can talk about cannabis.


AS

Yeah, definitely. And, this was actually my last question, but I'll go to it now. You know, because like you said - patients talking to the doctor, or even the pharmacist about cannabis, it can be tough, an awkward conversation. And then unfortunately, sometimes when patients do feel empowered enough to have that conversation, the pharmacist will say, I don't know anything about it. So are there any, you know, off the top of your head resources that you recommend? Or can you tell us a little bit about about your consultant work or other pharmacist - one on one MTM style consultations that you recommend for people whose they kind of hit a dead end with their own providers, unfortunately.


LA

Okay, good question. Because there are some places and it's taken me years to learn and find out in fact. On my smartphone, not only do I have the Epocrates, Medscape, but I've begun my own private cannabis library. I've gone into PubMed have gotten articles from PubMed, have gotten multiple studies from all over the world. Canada's got some really good stuff. Oh - I am certified as - what's my certification - I am certified in Europe as an Internationally Certified Cannabis Clinician. Somebody had to do this, so I went to Spain and got certified. Right? Somebody had to do it!


But if you're going into the computer, if you're going into a search, I start with two really basic basic sites. One is Project CBD. I find some of my best resources, explanations, questions. And on a regular, they're there. It's upbeat. I get an email from project CBD on at least a weekly basis, if not every other day. So that helps me put my put my library together. They also have the question of the day or the answer of the day. It's always really interesting because again, we're changing, this industry is changing every single day. The other one I always like is called Leafly - L-E-A-F-L-Y. That's another very good resource. I kind of stay with those two. But there is a site and there is a product, a CBD product that I've become very interested in. And it's called Equilibria women. And it's CBD for women by women. I love that they've got beautiful products all online, they're not in in stores, but they offer a concierge service where they dosage specialists and they also have pharmacists to answer questions.


AS

Oh, that's perfect.


LA

Yeah, it's wonderful. You know because I tell everyone please, no offense to DSW it's a great place to buy shoes, but I don't buy my cannabis at DSW or the local, you know, gas station. If you have a question, there's no one to ask. If you have a question, you know, the person selling shoes is going to give you a blank look. And the person at the gas station the same. I'm not knocking them, you know, they may have some good products, but there's nobody that knows about those products and there's no consistency.


So my other thing that I always talk about to students and to doctors is the consistency. You can't use this CBD today that CBD tomorrow, another one where you don't know where it's coming from and what it is. Make sure there is a certificate on that CBD. Make sure of authenticity so you can go back to that company and see what you're taking, number one.


Number two, the biggest confusion for patients - dosing. I've had patients say "Oh, I buy this CBD online, and I'm taking 3000 milligrams a day". And I would say, "If you're taking 3000 milligrams a day, and you're awake, that is just that is incredible!" There's a misunderstanding - when you're buying the tinctures, it's 3000 milligrams in a vial. So you have to do the math. You've got to go down to how many drops are in the dropper full? Do the math. Some say "I get 1000 milligrams a day". I know you're probably getting in the dropper full, maybe 10 milligrams, and not, you know, unless of course, unless you drink the whole vial at the same time, which I really don't recommend at all. I recommend, start very low, start very slow. Listen to yourself. And just pay attention, take it with food. These are these are some of my recommendations, both to patients and when doctors ask the questions.


I have a local cardiologist that was just telling me yesterday that he has so many patients now talking to me about cannabis. And I responded to him, "So you're the one that's sending me all of these patients?" And he said, "Well, yes, I don't know anything. But I want to sound very smart. So I tell them that you and I work together on this". And I said, "Doctor, that's fantastic. I enjoy it. And I love talking to all of your patients."


AS

Yeah, and I think that's one of the things where I think, you know, in this industry, you have to be, you know, definitely discerning about the types of information you consume. But especially as healthcare professionals, be open to learning new things, to sources of information that you have maybe never heard of - I mean, I'm a huge fan of Project CBD. And I had never heard of it and a budtender in Portland, Oregon, told me about it. And I looked at it I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is fantastic!". So I guess knowing what you don't know, is equally important in this industry, or most important in this industry.


LA

Well, I'm hoping that for 2021 everyone has an new light in their tunnels, and knows that they need to learn about it. I never want to hear a patient coming up to a pharmacist [with a bad experience]. I tell the pharmacist, listen, you're the first port of entry - you make an appointment to talk to a nurse practitioner, you have to make an appointment to speak or see a physician, you walk into every drugstore, a pharmacist is behind the counter. They're there to answer questions. And this is the time that they need to answer questions on the CBD products, on the THC products they, don't have to have to the masters. But again, get the basics done.


You know, you have to alert the patient, that there are side effects and what some of them are. The one of the biggest side effects I have found is the hyperemesis from patients. And then I'll ask the patient, "How much did you take?"

"Oh, I drank the whole can."

And I say, "Well, I think you should, you know, if you're taking the can and it says it's 25 milligrams, I wouldn't do it in one shot or one gulp, you know, spread that can out throughout the day. Take it in small doses until you build up in your own system that you can take a 25 all at one time."


If you take capsules start with a five or 10 milligram capsule or a tincture. Go very slow. And I love to titrate - you know if you need to titrate seven days, 10 days, what's the hurry? You wait. It's a CBD product. What's the hurry? I'll have patients call me and tell me "Well, I've been taking my medical cannabis now for a week or two weeks, and I feel the same".

"And how many years have you had arthritis?"

"Oh, well, it's been years, 10 or 20 years. "

"And you think that this is a magic pill or a magic potion?!"


You have to do this slowly write, everything down, keep track of how you take your products. It's now leaving a huge responsibility on the patient. It's no longer you come to the doctor, he gives you a prescription, you go to the pharmacist, he fills the prescription, asks you 'Do you have any questions?', you go home and take it. That's not how it is in cannabis.


You now have to take your own responsibility, you have to do some of your own work. If you find a pharmacist that understands cannabis - hooray. But when you do go into the dispensary, and I know from, of course from my dispensaries, I told all of the people working there because there none of them are medical, they are not to get involved medically, but they do know their product. So if you know your condition, they know the product, you've got a good portion of that equation in front of you to help yourself.


And they will give you a heads up on you know, don't take too much or don't use this dose or this was some of the problems I've had or their issues. What I tell the patients is that when you start with your gummy, just take just eat the the head off that gummy. That's all, that's your day's dose. Do that for 5, 6, 7 days, then add on and then slowly add on until you feel you find that sweet spot. I had a patient call me and said "I'm not using my gummies anymore."

And I said "I thought you liked them".

She said "I did until I fell."

"You fell?!"

And she said "Yes. I got dizzy when I got up and I fell."

And I said, "But you only took the head off of a gummy".

And she said, "Well, it was pretty tasty. I didn't feel anything. So I took another head and another head and another head."

So I said, "Well, that was cheating and I'm sorry that happened to you. But you were not told to take seven or eight heads. You were supposed to take one head a day and then I was going to give you the rest of the body!"


AS

Wow, you really covered a lot of what I was gonna ask you about! My third question, which is perfect, because I think you know, a lot of the things that we hear for other over the counter meds, people might be familiar with, you know, you see ads on TV about how certain cold medicines can raise your blood pressure. And people I think kind of commonly know, you know, things like Advil can be rough on your stomach and that kind of stuff. But for cannabis, I think it sounds like what I'm hearing from you is that the the biggest, you know, if you don't know anything else about it, you know, starting low, going slow. And I love that perspective of 'What's the rush?' I think is really key.


I think though, so you know, that's kind of talking about underlying conditions. And you know, what we know and a baseline going into - it start low and go slow. But can you tell us a little bit about - is there any general, you know, walking around knowledge you think that people should have about their prescription medications there? Is there like the 10,000 foot view of start low go slow and hyperemesis, being nauseous, that's an overdose cannabis symptom. What's my walking around knowledge that I should have about prescription drugs that I might be taking?


LA

Well, of course there are there are interactions, because this is a medicine and you are already taking medicine. So sometimes what happens with the cannabis, it complements the medicine. So if you're on warfarin, again, warfarin is a very bad example, because warfarin doesn't like any drug and doesn't like half of the foods that you eat. So why would it even like cannabis? So this one, you have to be very, very careful. This is where you have to talk to the doctor, "I am on a warfarin and now I'm going to start taking cannabis." I would recommend more frequent INRs. But that's only on the warfarin if you're taking the anticoagulants you are okay.


Advil, well, we all know you have to take Advil with food. And I've learned that if you're taking cannabis on a regular basis, you may not need as much Advil for a headache or I mean if it's an acute pain, like a toothache pain, well you know, you're going to need that Advil and a dentist quick as possible. But overall, this is something that you have to you know, take it with food. I always recommend it does work so much better. Not on donut, but take a nice meal a fatty meal, it'll work better for you.


The hyperemesis as I mentioned before it happens if you're starting on cannabis and you're starting with a high dose, there are people that once it hits your liver, you just get that hyperemesis and nausea really, really bad. Some of the other side effects, tiredness, they may feel, but then some patients will get perky. So, again, it's individual, keep a log on, you know, what I took, how much I took, and how I felt appetite changes, you could be hungry or you may get the munchies, you may not want to eat. Again, that all depends on your own body and your own system. Some people have gotten diarrhea, they've called me on that.


It does have a very good safety profile. It's been well tolerated. If you do it slow, take it easy. Because you bought it, you know, without a prescription, you have to know how your body is going to react. So when taking your CBD or your medical cannabis first do it at home, not just one dose you may need to have a week. Titrate it early, start it in the evening before you go to sleep or you know, start it at five o'clock with dinner. Obviously I eat dinner early, but start it with an early dinner and then see how you feel, you know, did it put you to sleep? Did you did you sleep all night? Did you not? Did it wake you up? Are you taking other drugs?


There's so many things I've learned. It's so exciting. Because as a pharmacist, you know, not only what we do every day, but pharmacologically and it's really exciting. I tell every pharmacist time to shine. When I speak it's in the schools the students say "Oh Luba, you know, you've owned pharmacies, you've done that. I want to go into business. I want to buy a drugstore."

And I say, "Well, for those living in Chicago, New York, Cincinnati, I don't know if that's going to happen right now, buying a drugstore. Because it's very difficult. But what's really needed is to do patient advocacy. Become an advocate, learn about cannabis."


Learn how you could work with patients go into the doctor's office or go or you know, you can't go to the doctor's oh, yes, you can. Yes, you can. You can wait in the lobby. But you can go into a dispensary with a patient and help them the right choice. I had a doctor that I was his advocate, and we went into the dispensary. And, this was funny, he brought $600 in his pocket, because he heard that cannabis is so expensive. I didn't laugh, I kept a straight face. So you know, he starts talking to me, and I'm with him, I'm not talking to the dispensary people. They were very nice. You know, Doctor, do you want to try this? You want to try this? You want to you know? And of course he didn't know what to say. So he said, yes, I'll try this.


And after they laid it all out I said, Doctor, no, you don't want to take all this home and try it. You could come in here as often as you want, as long as you don't buy the max within 14 days. Buy something small. See if you're going to adhere to it to it for a week or two weeks, see how you feel. And then let's move on and try something else. And so when we we were all done, and I think his bill was, I don't know $50 or $75 for a month supply, and he walked away and said "Are you sure that I did this right?"

"I said you know, it isn't like the dispensary people are trying to oversell you, but you're the one that's trying to over buy!"


So stay very focused, and tell them, you know, just don't buy everything because you're not gonna need everything or use everything. I had one patient brought me a box, I was doing a talk in a senior citizen and independent living facility. And one of the patients said, 'Can I come back and see you after your talk?' Of course, she brought me a box. It was like half of a shoe box. And it was all full of cannabis. There was everything in there. There was suppositories I mean, it was like a mini store. Oh, and everything had little post its on every single box. And I said, "Where did you get this?"

She said, "My son brought it for me because he is my caregiver and he and he went to the store he went to this dispensary and bought me all of this. And the lady was very nice. So she told me how to use it. But now I don't know what to do with all of us!"

I said, "You know your son was so great. He's so nice. He overbought and the dispensary people labeled everything because he said who's it for."


I totally understand what you're saying, she saw this, she got scared, put it on a shelf or in a drawer. So we kind of broke everything out, I wrote it all out for her, I said, you probably have a year supply here or more. So this is something that we all you know, we all have to learn.


AS

Yeah, and I think that's something unique about the cannabis industry, especially now is that, you know, it can certainly benefit a lot of people. But it is one thing that can be so uniquely overwhelming for patients because it was, you know, prohibited for such a long time. And now in a lot of places, it's all open all access. And, and that's kind of how, how that happens.


Thank you, thank you for that background, I love the parallels that you draw between, you know, your experience with cannabis patients, you know, just like to prescription drugs, and I think providers just need to -providers and patients- just need to put that kind of mindset on with it and then becomes more clear, you know, putting all the stigma on it aside.


Like you said, it's just like something like, Chantex, you know, we don't cold turkey one thing and start another thing the next day. No, we don't do that. And then you talk about, you know, products like Ambien. You know, that was one of the most popular drugs in the world for a long time in the early 2000s, but it was also very dangerous. And then you have something like cannabis, that's whose safety profile quite frankly, is a lot better. But we are somehow more afraid of it than we were Ambien, which I think is -


LA

Or Xanax!


AS

Or Xanax -yep. You know, and so I think it's really thinking about it in those terms, you know, with all of that social stigma around it aside of like - what, are we really talking about safety -wise? Side effects? efficacy? I think that conversation needs to happen more and more.


LA

It does, it does Abby. Because, you know, when we're looking at this, we're forgetting sometimes that it's a medicine, we you know, they've got the word marijuana on it. I have my senior saying, 'Oh, I smoked him when I was in college'. Well, you know, you're not gonna smoke it now and you're not in college now. Over the years, Abby, you know that it's a new product. And there are so many more new products. It's not the same thing that somebody rolled a joint in, in college and one cigarette was for six people and everyone was you know, giggly. This not what we're talking about.


There's a medical side. It's evolving every day, there is no magic. I usually tell my patients, when they ask me questions on how do I start, I tell them first of all, I want you to get a product, get a product that you can titrate it slowly. I want to put you on it for 90 days, three months. Stay on it for three months, not three days, give it a three month - and keep a note on how you felt or didn't feel? Or what it did or didn't do. And were you taking other medications. And please don't drink alcohol with it. You know, I used to years ago when I had my pharmacy, I always had 'either or, never both', you know, you always have that question. Can I have a drink with this? This is everyone. Well, can I have a drink with this? I tell them this - You could have a drink. I cannot stop you. I'm not your mother. But the rule I've always felt is 'either or never both'. So if you're going to go out drinking in the evening, or afternoon or , if you're going to start in the afternoon, I would just stop your [cannabis] medications throughout the day. But if you are then, you know, skip that [cannabis] medication during the day until you're home until you're safe, because you don't know how it's going to react with your THC if you're taking a higher THC product or even with your CBD, until you've tried it at home and know how safe it can be. I'm very hesitant about having any alcohol with any of the cannabis products.


AS

Absolutely. Wow, this has been this has been amazing. And we're at the top of the hour, I want to be very conscious and respectful of your time. It's funny when I do this, I always put questions in an order that I think makes sense to me and then my interviewee, as they talk, we go in a totally different order that's way better than what I had in my mind! So I think we've hit them all. But I definitely want to ask you if there's something I didn't ask or anything else that you want to want to add, before we wrap up?


LA

Well, we did talk about the uses, especially pain and insomnia, those are probably the top two reasons where patients are asking - anxiety - especially now during a COVID, I'm getting a lot more anxiety questions. 'I'm anxious, I'm indoors and worried about going up out of the house. I haven't been out of the house in a week.' There's so many you know, reasons and how do I take my cannabis? Do I increase it? What do I do? You know, do I take more Ativan? What do I do? What do I do?


So I think this is something that I don't have an answer to that because everybody is so different, and how they're going to approach it. I see that all the cannabis stores have people are lining up. So I think that's good. You know, they're hopefully they're now taking a lot of Xanax and Ambien, and maybe they found their sweet spot with the cannabis. That's hard to tell.


I'm hoping that we're going to start collecting data. So we as a medical industry can now look at data and see how what's helping, how it's not helping how it is helping, in what age groups? Is it for the geriatric population? Is it you know, autistic children? What doses are they taking? I think there's so many questions, it's like an entire - if you saw my little library, on my phone, it's, it looks like it Epocrates there because I'm collecting so much information. So you know, this is something that just has to be repeated and repeated, and you did such a great job and on the 'start low, go slow, don't be in a hurry'. You can always back up on your dose.


Let your doctor know what you're using. That's another thing that's so very important, the doctor has to know, because the doctor needs to know how to adjust your dose of your pharmaceuticals, when you come to see the doctor. Many of the doses have to be readjusted including blood pressure medications, they need to be lowered, we're getting patients that - they get up and then they go down. Well, because they took their 2, 3, 4 antihypertensives, while taking their CBD and their blood pressure's coming down and so are they. So it's really important to tell the doctor.


A lot of times, I've seen in several situations where the doctors have gone from four antihypertensives to three, and now watching the doses to reduce some of the doses so - and I think now more and more physicians are learning about it. They're open for discussion. And like I would tell some doctors when I would do my education, I said "Please, please be wide open to what your patients are taking. Because this way they will come back to you." Otherwise, they'll go somewhere else or there'll be they'll be doing their own experimentation and say 'I'm not going to tell my doctor because he hates the product'.


The first thing I've always felt for years and years is you know, honesty. You may not always want to hear about it. But if you're honest you know how to deal with it, rather than hiding. So that's that's it. I'm very excited about cannabis. I'm excited about the patients that call me. I'm very honest. Sometimes I tell them I you know, I'm really sorry. I either don't know about it, I can't give a positive response. And I don't see that there is a cure, you're not going to have a cure. It'll reduce some symptoms. It's not going to take your cancer away. It's not going to make you less demented. I did a small study in 2017 in dementia in a memory unit. And we had fantastic results. They were great results, but nobody got cured from their dementia or their Alzheimer's. They were no longer hitting, kicking, spitting - one began to taste food. So they became like really nice people. Because if you ever spent some time working with patients in dementia, some of them can be very nice. Some of them can be ornery, and I've been poked and hit and grabbed a few times.


We all have to learn learn every day, it's gonna take time. And it gets so exciting. Not only patient, but education wise, it's like, 'Wow, I didn't know this. Or maybe I did and I forgot about it?"


AS

Well we can't always hold on to everything right?


LA

That's right.


AS

This was amazing, thank you, thank you so much for your time!


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